EBO biologist Q&A, Reddit 2023
It seems like all my comments are being deleted. I will post answer at the end of the message.
From the late 2000s to the mid-2010s, I worked as a molecular biologist for a national security contractor in a program to study Exo-Biospheric-Organisms (EBO). The aim of the program was to elucidate the genome and proteome basis of these organisms. Although the study of OBCs has been going on for decades in other programs, the new high-throughput DNA sequencing technologies of the late 90s unblocked stagnant research in this area. Since then, several breakthroughs have led to significant advances in our understanding of the genome and proteome of these beings. What we've learned so far has enabled us to outline some disconcerting perspectives about our place in this universe. Briefly, we've discovered that the EBO genome is a chimera of genomes from our biosphere and from an unknown one. They are artificial, ephemeral and disposable organisms created for a purpose that still partially eludes us. I'll be substantiating my statements after a brief introduction.
The reason for disclosing these secrets is quite simple. I believe that every human being has the right to know the truth, and that to progress, humanity needs to divest itself of certain institutions and organizations that will probably not survive these revelations in the long term. I'm aware that I'll have very little impact in this regard, but I still believe that small leaks are necessary to break the dam of misinformation on this subject. When the governments will eventually reveal these secrets, there will undoubtedly be a societal upheaval, but in my opinion, the longer we wait, the worse it will be. I choose to divulge what I know anonymously out of selfishness for the well-being of myself and my family. I'm aware that this diminishes the reach and credibility of my message, but it's the furthest I am willing to go. I chose this forum because it offers a good compromise between anonymity and popularity. In order to protect my anonymity, I will be purposely vague or even contradictory about any information that could identify me (date, education, role etc.). I'll even introduce red herrings in this respect. I want to make it clear that any information related to the subject of the research will not be treated in this way.
Before going any further, please excuse me if you find it difficult to understand what I'm explaining. Some parts of my text are very technical. It's difficult to find the right balance between vulgarization and scientific explanation. I'll continue by talking about myself. What's the point of talking about me knowing that the information will necessarily be misleading? I simply want to introduce a perspective on the type of people who work there, normal scientists. I have a Ph.D. in molecular biology. I didn't actively seek to be part of this program, rather it was a stroke of luck that introduced me to one of the senior scientists. I met this person at a conference where I was presenting a poster on my Ph.D. research. When I think back, I don't believe he was impressed by what I was presenting, because it was quite frankly a project that wasn't going anywhere. I think it was rather the most important aspect of a professional life: the attitude and the ease with which you make connections. Shortly afterwards, I graduated and received a call from this person offering me a position. At the time, everything pointed to me working in a regular laboratory.
I did a series of three increasingly suspicious interviews, each in a different location, where my scientific background and knowledge became less and less relevant. The first was with two of the senior scientists, the second and third with people I've never seen again and who were obviously not interested in science. Sometime after the interview, I was asked to go to a fourth location where what seemed like a corporate lawyer presented me with an NDA. He made sure not only to explain every detail, but also that I understood the consequence of not respecting it.
The first Employment weeks were by far the most memorable, although I spent most of that time in a depressing archive room. It consists almost exclusively of reading about the subject of study and to get us up to speed. There's no secret Wikipedia or even a reference book to guide us. There are only dry reports, memos, presentations, procedures and SOPs. These documents are almost exclusively about the biology of EBOs, but there are also a few that deal with other subjects such as their food, religion or culture. There were no documents on their technology.
As mentioned above, the aim of the project is to gain a better understanding of the EBO genome and proteome. To achieve this, a team of around twenty scientists, four senior scientists and a director was involved. The scientists, like myself, had as their main responsibility to carry out the technical work. As each scientist had to my knowledge a Ph.D., we were all somewhat overqualified for what is ultimately a technician's job. The senior scientists, who make full use of their diplomas, had the task of designing the assays and had a supervisory responsibility. They were also in charge of training new employees, and sometimes even came in to do technical work. The director, of course, was the person in charge who dictated priorities to the senior scientists. He was rarely on site, and the few times he was, it was to attend meetings. Other than the scientific staff, there were security guards working for one subcontractor or another. There were no support staff such as janitors or maintenance workers. Scientists were responsible for this kind of work. In addition, logistical constraints ensure that every scientist is capable of carrying out any technical activity.
The laboratory itself is located in Fort Detrick, Maryland, in a building used for legitimate biomedical research. The clandestine operations are carried out in a restricted part of the basement, out of sight from regular workers. Contrary to what one might imagine, the biosafety level is not maximal for this type of research. Indeed, the lab containing EBO samples or derived cell cultures is BSL3, while the lab where assays are conducted are only BSL2. The BSL3 area of the facility includes a freezer room and a cell culture lab and is only accessible through an antechamber from the BSL2 section. EBO carcasses are preserved in horizontal freezers at a temperature of -80°C nominal. To maximize the preservation of these carcasses, they are preserved in vacuum bags and the air in the room is controlled to minimize humidity. There are only four bodies and none of them are complete. It's obvious that these creatures have died as a result of major trauma. I've never witnessed a motorcycle accident fatality, but it probably looks similar to this. It is acknowledged that there are more EBOs caracasses at other locations. The cell culture laboratory, as its name suggests, is where cell lines derived from EBOs are grown and related activities are performed. I'll talk in more detail about these specific cell lines later on. The BSL2 part is mainly used for assays, immunohistochemistry, genetic engineering, immunocytochemistry, storage etc. There's also a cell culture lab, but this is used for more traditional cell lines. Other than the labs, there are all the amenities you could find in an office. Note that the internet access is limited to senior staff and up. There is, however, an intranet for bioinformatics needs.
On the subject of the biology of these beings, I'll start by discussing genetics, then their gross anatomy and finally their biological systems. For the sake of clarity, the information that I provide here is an aggregation of what I have observed and what I have read. I will make many comparisons with human anatomy because it is the most logical reference.
Genetics:
First, I'd like to discuss their genetics. Their genetics are like ours, based on DNA. This fact was very puzzling for me when I first learned about it. We imagine that beings from an alternate biosphere would have genetics based on a completely foreign biochemical system and surprisingly, this is not the case. Several conclusions can be drawn from this surprising revelation. The one that immediately comes to mind is that our biosphere and theirs share a common ancestry. They're eukaryotes, which means their cells have nuclei containing genetic material. Which suggests that their biosphere would have been separated from ours sometime after the appearance of this type of organism. The term Exo-Biospheric-Organism is actually a misnomer, but as it's a historical term, it's still used. Their genetics are not only based on the same genetic system, but they’re also even compatible with our own cellular machinery. This means that you can take a human gene and insert it into an EBO cell, and that gene will be translated into protein, and this of course works in reverse with a human gene inserted into an EBO cell. There are important differences in post-translational modifications that will make the final protein non-functional, but I'll discuss these later. Their genome consists of 16 circular chromosomes.
You're probably familiar with the concept of intergenic region or "junk DNA". These are basically DNA sequences that don't code for proteins. These are evolutionary residues, transposons, inactivated genes and so on. To give you an idea, in humans, intergenic regions represent approximately 99% of our genome. I'm aware that these sequences aren't completely useless, they can be used as histone anchors, as buffers to protect coding DNA from radiation or even as alternative open reading frames, but that's rather peripheral.
What's particularly striking about the EBO genome is the uniformity of these intergenic regions. We see the same sequences repeated everywhere, and the distance in bp between the genes is virtually the same throughout their genome. The result is a minimalist, highly condensed genome. In fact, it's much smaller than ours. Moreover, the quantity of protein-coding genes is even significantly lower than ours, probably due to genetic refinement but also to biological processes that are absent in EBO. The uniformity of these sequences is a major indication of the artificiality of these beings. There is no complex organism on earth that has such elegance in its sequences. There is no evolutionary pressure that can lead to this kind of characteristic other than genetic engineering.
Speaking of genetic engineering, following sequencing of their genomes, we noticed a troubling and universal characteristic in the 5' of the regulatory sequence of each gene which we call the Tri-Palindromic Region. The TPR are 134bp sequences containing, as its name suggests, 3 palindromes. In genetics, a palindrome is a DNA sequence that when read in the same direction, gives the same sequence on both DNA strands. They serve both as a flag and as a binding site for proteins. The three palindromes in the TPR are distinct from one another and have been poetically named "5'P TPR", "M TPR" and "3' TPR". The TPR is composed (in 5' - 3' order) of 5'P TPR, 12bp spacer, Chromosomal address, 12bp spacer, M TPR, 12bp spacer, Gene address, 12pb spacer and 3' TPR. The chromosomal address is composed of 4 bp and is identical in each TPR of the same chromosome, but distinct between each of the 16 chromosomes of the genome. The Gene address is a 64bp sequence that is unique for each gene in the whole genome. It's therefore understandable that the TPR serves as a unique address not only for numerically identifying a gene, but also for identifying its chromosomal location. For those with only a basic knowledge of genetics, this is completely unheard of. No living thing in our biosphere has this kind of precise address in its genome. Once again, the presence of TPR cannot be explained by evolutionary pressure but only by genetic engineering on a genomic scale.
TPR opens the door to several possibilities. One of them suggests that EBO geneticists can insert or remove a gene from a cell in a way that is far more targeted and efficient than our technology allows. No proteins have been identified in the EBO genome that interacts with TPR. Rather, we believe that these proteins are exclusively targeted by external genetic engineering tools, probably used at the zygotic stage of embryonic development. The nature of these tools is unclear, but we definitely don't have anything like them. The probable absence of these proteins from the genome is a further indication of their artificiality. Given the high probability of artificiality of their genome and the apparent ease of modifying it with biomolecular tools, it's not out of the question that there could be polymorphism between individuals depending on their role and function. In other words, an individual could be genetically designed to have characteristics that give it an advantage in performing a given task, like soldier ants and worker ants in an anthill. Note that these previous statements are speculation. To my knowledge only one individual genome has been sequenced, I can't make a definitive statement on genetic variation between individuals.
I've talked a lot about intergenic regions, now I'll briefly discuss intragenic sequences. Briefly, because there's not a lot less to say despite its obvious importance. Much like ours, their genes have silencers, enhancers, promoters, 5'UTRs, exons, introns, 3' UTRs etc. There are many genes analogous to ours, which is not surprising given the compatibility of our cellular machinery. What's disturbing is that some genes correspond directly, nucleotide by nucleotide, with known human genes or even some animal genes. For these genes, there doesn't seem to be any artificial refinement but rather a crude copying and pasting. Why they do it is nebulous and still subject to conjecture. There are also many genes which are not found in our biosphere whose role has not been identified. Finding the purpose of these novel genes is one of the aims of the program. I'd like to note before going any further that this heterogeneity of genes of known and unknown origin is an undeniable proof of the artificiality of EBOs.
To conclude with genetics, the mitochondrial genome, at the time I was working there, had not yet been sequenced. It's safe to assume that this genome would also be streamlined and possibly has some version of TPR.
Transcription and translation and protein expression.
I briefly introduced the differences in post-translational modifications between human and EBO. This is hardly a surprise, as we often see the same thing between different terrestrial species. Obtaining a viable protein from a DNA sequence is a complex process involving hundreds of protein intermediates, each with a precise and essential role. A minor variation in this assembly line can lead to functional irregularities in the final product. So, it's no surprise that there are setbacks along the way when the first EBO gene transfection attempts failed to produce the desired functional protein in human cell lines. Fortunately for us, the work of what I imagine to be another team at another site has led to the development of an EBO cell line named EPI-G11 derived from epithelial tissues. With this tool in our hands, we were able to transfect and overexpress proteins of interest in order to eventually purify and study them. For your information, we use a biological ballistics delivery system (AKA gene gun) for our transfection needs because other methods are not very effective with cells of this line. For example, the viral vectors tested cannot be internalized by EPI-G11 and lipofection is too lethal. EPI-G11, like most eukaryotic cell lines, enters a phase of exponential growth when exposed to Fetal Bovine Serum. It's only half surprising that a cell line from such an exotic source should be sensitive to the growth factors present in FBS. In my opinion, this can be explained by the addition of animal genes to the genome, such as growth receptors.
Gross anatomy:
They are morphologically very similar to the grey aliens that are part of modern folklore. Their height is about 150cm, they have two arms, two legs and a head. Still, there are some notable differences.
Skin: The grey skin that is often described in folklore is in fact a biosynthetic film which, likely, serves to protect the EBO from a hostile environment. It doesn't provide effective protection against temperature changes, but it does offer adequate protection against the passage of liquids. It's possible that this film confers other advantages but my knowledge on the subject is limited. Under the grey film, the epidermis is rather white, and the texture is very regular and without any hair. We do not see any defect other than the folds near the joints. It's described as greasy in one report, but that's not something I've observed. The same report states that a strong, lingering smell of burnt hair and ammonia is present when the film is removed. There are a lot of pores on the skin, crossing from the epidermis to a gland in the hypodermis. These glands and pores are the terminal part of the excretory-sudoriferous system, which could explain the previously mentioned smell.
Head: The head contains two large, oversized eyes, two nostrils without protuberance, a narrow mouth without lips and two ear canals without auricles. There is a mandible, but the musculature is vestigial. There are no teeth or tongue in the oral cavity. The nasal cavity where the nostrils meet is compact and does not rise cranially but extends axially. There appears to be no equivalent to the olfactory bulb in the nasal cavity. The mouth leads directly to the esophagus and the nasal cavity to the trachea. The trachea and esophagus do not communicate.
Eye: Like the skin, the eyes are covered with a semi-transparent biosynthetic film that offers the same environmental protection, while providing protection against certain wavelengths and light intensity. When the film is removed, a more traditional eye is revealed. It's about three times larger than a human eye and there are no eyelids. The size of their eyes suggests they have excellent night vision. It seems paradoxical to cover them with a semi-opaque film. Perhaps they only need to wear it in a bright environment. Their sclera is the same color as their skin, the iris is pale grey, and the pupil is black and oversized. The lens is rounder than a human, and the musculature used to adjust focus is more developed. On the retina, there are at least 6 types of cone cells. The responsiveness of each of these 6 types of cone is specific to a wavelength band, with a minimum of overlap between each other. The result is a broader visible spectrum.
Ear: As mentioned, the outer ear has no auricle and the ear canal is unremarkable. The inner ear has all the characteristics of a typical vestibular and cochlear system, although the curvature of the cochlea is more pronounced than a human. This probably results in greater hearing acuity for low frequencies.
Brain: The brain is tetraspheric, i.e. composed of four major sections. The sections are separated by transverse and longitudinal fissures and are connected to the central lobe, which acts as brainstem and cerebellum. The volume of the brain is around 20% superior to that of a man of the same height. It has a much more pronounced level of gyrication than an average human. Moreover, the ratio of glial cells to neurons is also slightly higher than in humans. It is important to mention the presence of nodules on the central lobe. Histological analysis of these structures reveals a kind of intricate biological circuitry. It is speculated that these nodules are essential to interact with their technology. Consequently, determining the proteome of these structures is an absolute priority for the program.
Neck: The neck is proportionally longer than that of a human, and at the same time relatively thin. As mentioned, the esophagus and trachea are separate. There are no vocal cords in this region.
Thorax: The musculature of the thorax is underdeveloped. Muscles equivalent to the pectoralis major can be seen. We can also see the trapezius and deltoid muscles. The sternocleidomastoids are well defined. The ribs and sternum are clearly visible. There are no nipples.
Abdomen: The abdomen is wider than the thorax and bulges slightly forward. There is no navel.
Pelvis: The pelvic bones are apparent. There are no genitals or anus.
Hands and feets: Their hands have four digits, including an opposable thumb on the medial side. They have no nails, and the texture of their fingerprints is composed of concentric circles. Fingers are proportionally much longer than in humans. Unlike humans, finger musculature is entirely intrinsic to the hand. In other words, the muscles used to move the fingers are not in the forearms but entirely located in the hands. At first glance, the feet consist of just two digits, but a necropsy soon determined that each toe was made of two fused digits. The medial toe is marginally longer than the distal toe. The feet are relatively longer and narrower than in a human. Their musculature, however, is vestigial.
The EBOs endoskeleton is very similar to ours, at least in terms of composition. There's collagen, hydroxyapatite but also copper oxide crystals where marrow would normally be found. The role of these crystals has not been established, but it is not a crystalopathic condition. The blood cells of the myeloid lineage (or the equivalent for these creatures) therefore mature in a different location than in humans i.e. in the thymus like organ. A transverse section of the bone reveals osteon and osteocytes. There appear to be few osteoblasts and no osteoclasts. This indicates that the bones are no longer growing and cannot absorb the minerals present or adapt mechanically to changes in posture.
Biological system:
Respiratory system: Their cellular respiration is equivalent to ours, i.e. they need to oxidize organic components to produce energy. Their lungs have no reciprocating action, but rather have a unidirectional flow of air, similar to those seen in birds, which is more efficient than ours. It is speculated that this is in response to the brain's elevated metabolic needs. Vocalization is produced by vibration of the wall membrane at the junction between the two air sacs.
The Circulatory system of EBOs is rather analogous to ours. The heart is located in the mediastanum, but in a more medial position, directly beneath the sternum. The heart has two ventricles and two atria. There is an aorta, a pulmonary vein, a pulmonary artery and a vena cava. Blood flowing to the pulmonary capillaries via the pulmonary artery is pumped against the flow of air, maximizing gas exchange efficiency. The blood gas barrier is relatively narrow in these capillaries, at least compared to a human. Then oxygen-rich blood is returned to the heart and then expelled into the aorta and the rest of the body. Before returning to the heart, the blood will pass through the hepatorenal organ which, among other things, filters and controls osmotic pressure of the blood.
The blood itself is also analogous to that of a human. However, the proportion of plasma is much higher, albumin is in similar proportion ,hormone levels are much lower, metal ion levels are much higher (particularly copper) and glucose levels are significantly higher. The color of the blood is brownish, given the higher proportion of plasma and concentration of metal ions. On the cellular side, there are erythrocytes which, in addition to hemoglobin for binding oxygen, display several complexes capable of binding copper ions. It's not clear what role these copper ions play but we believe it neutralizes blood ammonia, among other things. Several cell types with leukocyte characteristics have been observed, but no comprehensive knowledge of them exists. Platelets are present, but in smaller proportions than in humans.
Excreto-sudoriferous system: This system is completely different from what I've seen. As mentioned earlier, there is no large orifice, like an anus or urethra, to get rid of biological waste. Instead, there are countless small pores on the surface of the skin. There's a large medial organ called the hepatorenal organ, which acts as both kidney and liver and is central to maintaining homeostasis. This organ is highly vascularized and the blood must pass through it before returning to the heart. Its role is, among other things, to purify the blood of metabolic waste. Waste is excreted into the equivalent of a ureter, which branches out into four. Each branch flows towards one of the four limbs and in turn these branches divide until they end up as thousands of excretory pores. The motility of this excretory system is mediated by a weak peristalsis at the proximal level and on the four main branches. Peristalsis ceases around the first distal junction. As there is no urea cycle, the ammonia concentration at the exit of the hepatorenal organ is very high. This ammonia is carried to the pores and gives the distinct odor I mentioned earlier. The rationale behind this unusual excretory system is directly related to this excreted ammonia, which enables thermoregulation by evaporating on the skin's surface. The greater the physical effort, the greater the metabolism. This in turn leads to a rise in temperature, and a corresponding increase in metabolic waste via amino acid catabolism. This leads to an increase in filtration and ammonia excretion, which ultimately lowers body temperature.
Digestive system: The digestive system is extremely underdeveloped. There's no there is no stomach in the familiar sense. However, there is a pseudo-stomach located at the transition between the thoracic and abdominal cavities. This organ is not involved in digestion, but only serves as a reservoir. A sphincter controls the flow of food into the intestine. The intestine is limited to the equivalent of our small intestine, i.e. it only serves to absorb liquids and nutrients and acts as the main digestion site. It has villi and microvilli like ours. The intestine ends in the hepato-renal organ, where non-digested matter is transported to the ureter and excretory system. Residues are dissolved in the ammonia of metabolic waste for excretion. There's an organ near the pseudostomachal sphincter that secretes digestive enzymes directly into the intestine. This organ is inspirationally called the digestive organ. It secretes mainly proteolytic enzymes and glycoside hydrolases.
Given the absence of teeth, the narrowness and rigidity of the esophagus, the absence of a true stomach and the absence of defecation, it is strongly believed that EBOs can only consume food in liquid form. It is assumed that, given the high metabolic needs of their brains, this food would have a high carbohydrate concentration. In order to meet other metabolic needs, there must also be a high protein content in the food consumed. These two statements are supported by the type of enzyme secreted by the digestive organ. It is therefore speculated that the food consumed is a sort of broth rich in sugar and protein, which probably also has a high copper content. Given the strict limitations on the type of food that they can consume, it's unlikely that this type of creature could survive in our biosphere without technological support.
Endocrine system: Knowledge of the endocrine system is minimal. We know that cells are receptive to bovine growth hormones, so it's assumed that certain functions are regulated by such a system. Endocrine mechanisms are very complex, and it goes without saying that they are best studied on living subjects.
Immune system: The immune system is another unknown. There seems to be an innate immune system but there doesn't seem to be any adaptive immunity, at least not similar to what is known. There's a thymus-like organ near the heart that's proportionally larger than in humans. This organ seems to be where all blood cells mature. Some cells have leukocyte characteristics such as granularity. The immune cells that germinate here have a high copper concentration. The surface receptors of innate immune cells have not yet been characterized, so we might as well say that all the work remains to be done.
Nervous system: The nervous system is also relatively similar. The spinal cord begins at the base of the central lobe of the brain and propagates down the vertebral column. In the vertebrae there are ganglia made of afferent and efferent neurons. In short, other than the CNS, there is nothing out of the ordinary.
Musculoskeletal system: The musculoskeletal system is very ordinary, albeit underdeveloped. Most of the human skeletal muscles have an equivalent. Only the hands, feet and forearms are different. It should be noted that the proportion of type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers is different from that in a human. Indeed, type 1 outnumbers type 2 by about a factor of 10.
Artificial system: We speculate that artificial molecular machines may be present in the body, and that copper, if present, would be essential to their function or assembly. Importantly, no AMMs have been observed.
Question 1: Amazing story. Have you shared this with the Senate Select Commission on Intelligence or with AARO and do you have evidence to back this up?
Thank you, no I haven't and no I won't. It sounds like a honey trap to me. I will not place my life in the hands of politicians. I have no proof other than this message. I know it's not much but it's what I'm prepared to offer
Question 2: Well that was a read ... So they are bio engineered worker bees... Any elemental components that are unutributal to our biome ?
Yes, knowing that they're disposable, unable to live independently without technological support, and that they're ephemeral. The only suitable hypothesis is that they are alive only to accomplish their task. Can you clarify your question about elemental components?
Question 3: I havent read everything in detail but can you expend on the document on their religion?
EBOs believe that the soul is not an extension of the individual, but rather a fundamental characteristic of nature that expresses itself as a field, not unlike gravity. In the presence of life, this field acquires complexity, resulting in negative entropy if that makes sense. This gain in complexity is directly correlated with the concentration of living organisms in a given location. With time, and with the right conditions, life in turn becomes more complex until the appearance of sentient life. After reaching this threshold, the field begins to express itself through these sentient beings, forming what we call the soul. Through their life experiences, sentient beings will in turn influence the field in a sort of positive feedback loop. This in turn further accelerates the complexity of the field. Eventually, when the field reaches a "critical mass", there will be a sort of apotheosis. It's not clear what this means in practical terms, but this quest for apotheosis seems to be the EBOs main motivation.
The author of the document added his reflections and interpretations as an appendix. He specified that, for them, the soul field is not a belief but an obvious truth. He also argues that the soul loses its individuality after death, but that memory and experience persist as part of the field. This fact would influence the philosophy and culture of EBOs, resulting in a society that doesn't fear death but which places no importance or reverence on individuality. This "belief" compels them to seed life, shape it, nurture it, monitor it and influence it for the ultimate purpose of creating this apotheosis. Paradoxically, they have little or no respect for an individual's well-being.
Please be advised that I'm speaking from memory of something I read more than 10 years ago, so take the following with a grain of salt. Also, I'm not a philosopher or an artist, so please excuse my struggle to properly formulate the concepts and my dry terminology. Finally, note that this information comes from a document whose author was directly interacting with an EBO. It is not specified whether it was an ambassador, a crash survivor, a prisoner. The means of communication were not specified either.
Question 4: Wtf he dropped the location of the lab
Battelle National Biodefense Institute. It is on google map
Q&A
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I’m an entomologist. I understood the text and I’m utterly fascinated by the implications here, and also slightly disturbed.
So basically, if they could run, the sweat is essentially urine/excrement as well, and the evaporation cools the body. Ammonia evaporates at a much lower temp than water, so I’m assuming the method would be more effective??
What of bacteria? With that excrement system, I’m assuming a buildup of waste under the biofilm. When exposed to our environment, how could they survive without some opportunistic bacterial infections? I see the immune system hasn’t been deeply studied yet, but has there been any signs of infections or susceptibility to our native microbiome?
EBOscientistA33 points 2 hours ago
I don't think they were created with long-term survival in mind. They have an innate immune system, and fluid flow is unidirectional in the excretory system. This undoubtedly gives them a bit of a reprieve. They also wear a protective biofilm at all times.
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[–]Smooth_Imagination 2 hours ago
The film covering and lack of hair would also suggest the creatures are barely physical or have a naturally high body temperature and cool habitat, since there is apparently no need for sweating. Water conservation I also suggest before since I have mused on possible alien biology and determined from the reports of ammnia smell that they might excreting through the skin, and why they might;
through the skin rather than through a dedicated route - via either a cloaca or a urinal tract, in which a dedicated organ flushes it out, sounds like it could be an adaptation to avoid wasting water. On Earth terrestrial animals use either urine or a mixture of urine and faeces to excrete metabolic byproducts. Birds, reptiles, and some animals like beavers and otters use a cloaca, which is an opening combining both types of excretia. This is also why bird poo is runny and smells differently, and guano does smell like ammonia.
Notwithstanding the possibility that the creature has literally pissed itself, its quite possible that it excretes these substances through the skin, which build up in the oily surface. Why would a creature do this? In vertebrates these functions are performed by internal organs. But they could be performed in the skin. Many functions in the liver and kidneys are performed also in other tissues. In cases of dioxin poisoning for example, the skin undergoes adaptations as part of an increased detoxifying response occurring in the skin with a marked effect on its appearance.Excretion is performed by not only dedicated organs like the kidneys, its also performed by the gut and the skin. In effect the gut is a type of skin, and the tubes in the kidneys might also be thought of as such.
A very oily skin can also indicate a desire to reduce water loss, which might favour the avoidance of a urinary system of excretion. Insects like bed bugs have a waxy coating that prevents evaporation that greatly reduces water requirement. Its not oily as it isn't liquid. They also do not excrete through their skin. If one was too, it might be expected to produce a build up like that described.
In effect the creature might 'pee and shit through its skin' and it may also obtain energy more preferentially from amino acid degradation, that would mean it needed a lot more than we do and it may also (or instead) more completely metabolise towards ammonia than we do to obtain more energy from it, which may be released in part through its lungs. Alternatively it may not convert to urea like we do and the smell is due to a similar molecule/molecules it prefers to excrete which happens to be pungent to us.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
I find they have a certain amphibian appearance
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[–]ElectronicFootball42 11 points 2 hours ago
With that excrement system, I’m assuming a buildup of waste under the biofilm
I'm curious about this too.
Other lore has claimed the lack of traditional mouth parts, and a lack of genitals, as well as a "disposable" nature. Taking that seriously, I had wondered if they didn't excrete at all. Or eat, even. Just build up toxic byproducts in the body until death, and whatever energy they have they had since "birth". Similar to butterflies/moths that can't eat after they grow their wings, they only live for a short time to reproduce.
Now though.. Maybe the biofilm is permeable in one direction, but not the other? Just offgas your waste through your "clothes", but don't have to worry about anything getting in.
[–]aprilflowers75 3 points 2 hours ago
This makes sense, as a semi-permeable membrane, where internal pressure might force molecules outward.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
Yes exactly, I should have specified this detail
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[–]unknownmichael 33 points 3 hours ago
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for posting. Although my medical terminology is lacking, I did notice that you said that they're receptive to bovine growth hormones. Do you think that there's any relation to the cattle mutilations and their nourishment?
EBOscientistA29 points 3 hours ago
I can't say with absolute certainty. It's easier to collect and purify a raw material than to synthesize it, at least with our technology. If you want to create a new organism, you need nucleic acids, amino acids and lipids which are found in large quantities in all animals.
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[–]SidneySilver 28 points 2 hours ago
The excretion of waste thought their skin has been discussed by John Lear in the following interview. The relevant section of the interview is at 6:20
the event that occurred in Varginha Brazil, the mention of a terrible smell of ammonia, coupled to the solider’s death through a form of severe sepsis would appear to be consistent with this report concerning their digestive system.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
The creature I googled bears little resemblance to what I saw, but I don't claim to know them all
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Some technical questions
1) Genetic scarring - any evidence of similar viral infections or genetic mutations that are detectable across evolutionary timescales?
2) Our genetic evolution pertaining to weakening of the jaw muscle that prevented our skull plates from fusing and hence accommodated our growing brain, has it any detectable traces of manipulation
3) How do Homologies show up in their anatomy. The similarities between shared structures across organisms
4) What about HOX genes and embryology
5) Is their nervous system similar to ours? As in lateralization? What about language areas like wernicke & brocas?
6) The telomeres. How do these organisms age?
I will ask more technical questions based on your reply to these 😁
EBOscientistA49 points 2 hours ago
1: None, other than in the so-called terrestrial gene directly copied.
2: The artifacts of human evolution are not present. They don't have wisdom teeth or a coccyx either, if you must know. I have no knowledge of their potential influence on our evolution.
3: We can see single-nucleotide polymorphisms in human genes that relate to different human populations. I never used clustalW on their sequence.
4: They're probably present in one way or another, since EBOs have a definite body plan. Don't expect me to know every gene and its specific action. What's more, we don't have embryos to work with, so fetal maturation is a little extrapolated.
5: There is no structure comparable to the human brain other than what I have mentioned.
6: There is no telomeres, the chromosomes are circular like a plasmid
[–]Punjabi-Batman 28 points 2 hours ago
Damn ok WOW
I'm taking you alot more seriously and lean on you being truthful
Out of curiosity I will ask some more questions.
1) Copper can be highly toxic. We know the mechanism. It can lead to death. Copper is a very heavy metal and may induce severe oxidative stress on cells leading to cellular death etc. I am curious to know how such high levels of copper are tolerated.
2) You claim they have high Glucose intake. How do they digest it? What enzymes do they use? Do they have a comparable thing to Insulin? As for proteins, what types of proteases do they secrete in their digestive tract?
3) Protein digestion creates Urea which is removed by our kidneys and excreted in urine. Where does the excess urea go or how is it removed. Is the single organ in the middle acting as the liver & kidney?
4) lack of a vocal organ means they don't use verbal language. Do they use telepathy? Or sign language? What is their base mode of communication? Theory of mind is what I am trying to tie it to.
5) can we extract their DNA and inject it into Humans using something like CRISPR?
6) What are their DNA base codes? ATGC? What combination do they bind in? What about RNA and Uracil?
7) Do they have any Pottasium ion or other such ionjc pumps in any cells? In neurotransmission there is a change of a few MV between firing , action potential etc at -55mv. Do they have any such methods?
8) Do they have any Neurotransmitters like Dopamine? Serotonin Glutamate?
9) The extra number on glial cells makes sense to clean up the extra waste from the enlarged brain and more neurons firing. Just an observation.
10) Can we synthesise a clone for ourselves given we have their DNA?
11) If they are asexual they'd be evolutionarily unstable and gene pool diversity would be horrible. Do we see any reminiscence of such bad mutations spreading across their gene pool? Or is that why they are trying to do genetic experiments on us to enhance their survivability? Hmmmm
I will stop here for now and thanks again!
EBOscientistAan hour ago
1: That's a very good question. most of the copper is sequestered on the surface of the erythrocytes
2: Probably some amylase or another. The aim of the project is not to identify this kind of enzyme. Anyway, there isn't a molecular biologist on earth who like proteases.
3: As mentioned in my text, there is no urea cycle. Remember that ammonia is a precursor of urea. Ammonia is quickly evacuated after each blood cycle because it passes directly through the hepato-renal organ. Its toxicity is limited by its rapid evacuation
4:Do they have a vocal organ, I specified it in the respiratory system poart.
5: Sure, but CRISPR/Cas9 have limitation with the size of the insert so it would be tricky do to. Moreover, the insert must be able to be translated faithfully to it's native sate like what is done in a cell line such as EPI-G11
6: Yes ATCG
7: Yes they do, but the surface proteins have not been studied in detail. We assume that the entire machinery of the cell is equivalent to what is known in humans to do shortcuts
8: Most likely. I don't have in-depth knowledge on the subject, but they have neurons and the extracellular communication in the synaptic cleft must be similar
9: Yes, that's probably their role
10: We would have to be able to generate an embryo and be able to have a sort of synthetic uterus. Given the number of workers, it may still be a distant project
11: Only one genome has been sequenced so we cannot compare , but it is speculated that are all identical clones. Probably generated from the same source.
[–]Punjabi-Batman an hour ago
Oh and can you also elaborate on their cellular division. As in do they have mitosis? As they lack sexual organs and gamete I guess they don't have meosis? Also does their DNA strand get cut in half via enzymes and then corresponding base pairs align and a new strand is made? Do ribosomes read of the singular strand of messenger RNA to express proteins?
EBOscientistAan hour ago
Cell division is done by mitosis, but a somewhat strange version that has undefined protein actor given the circularity of the chromosomes. My knowledge is limited to beautiful images of confocal microscopy
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[–]NoTransition3549 21 points 3 hours ago
Well that was a read ... So they are bio engineered worker bees... Any elemental components that are unutributal to our biome ?
EBOscientistA16 points 3 hours ago
Yes, knowing that they're disposable, unable to live independently without technological support, and that they're ephemeral. The only suitable hypothesis is that they are here only to accomplish their task. Can you clarify your question about elemental components?
[–]NoTransition3549 4 points 2 hours ago
Were there any trace minerals , metals , types of radiative isotope not found on earth ?
EBOscientistAan hour ago
No, I do not think so. Everything seems very local.
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[–]Healthy_Ad6253 25 points 2 hours ago
Cross posted to r/UFOs, you seem legitimate in your reasoning and concerns, and this type of post deserves to be in front of a bigger audience. Definitely appreciate the time and effort you put into this!
EBOscientistA42 points 2 hours ago
At first I wanted to write there, but since my specialty is "aliens" and not "ufo", I figured this would make more sense.
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[–]PaqiSheilds 23 points 2 hours ago
Bro you better have a VPN. Government gets a hold of these key words your done.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
I do
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[–]AffectionateBook4538 21 points 2 hours ago
There was a 4chan post in May from someone who claimed to have intimate knowledge of US efforts for UFO retrieval
are primarily unmanned drones
UFOs are built to spec each time they are deployed
UFOs are created by a mobile construction facility that hides in the ocean
Construction facility destroys anything that comes close to it and will disappear for days when approached aggressively
US believes the facility has been active on earth for at least 100 years or much longer
I know this is outside of what you described as your experience, but does any of this seem credible to you?
EBOscientistA51 minutes ago
Yes very believable. If their vehicles are custom built for a specific purpose, there seems to be the same philosophy behind the drivers with their "modular" DNA.
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[–]petermobeter 35 points 3 hours ago
this is absolutely fascinating. im sendin this link to my dad.
so um….. OP, u seem to say that these Greys were genetically designed using animal genes from earth, as well as unknown genes. does that mean that Greys were created specifically for interacting with humankind? are Greys, the middlemen between humanity, and an unknown group?
EBOscientistA51 points 3 hours ago
The hypothesis is that they were created to perform their tasks and be able to survive with only local resources. They must therefore be able to metabolize local organic resources.
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[–]Eirikr7 -14 points 3 hours ago
Likely written by A.I.
EBOscientistA30 points 3 hours ago
You give me too much credit, ai don't make typos
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Thanks for writing this up. If you don’t mind a couple questions…
Why have some areas been studied more thoroughly than others? Is this a result of the organization’s priorities or is there some science-based rationale? In your opinion, how efficient was the operation? Are there any medical advances you can point to which were derived from or influenced by this research? Finally, compared to theirs, how underdeveloped do our brains seem?
EBOscientistA14 points 2 hours ago
There are few scientists and few carcasses, so certain analyses are prioritized. I don't believe that any advances in molecular biology have been directly derived from the project. We use biomolecular tools available on the market.
[–]PancakeBreakfest 2 points 2 hours ago
Thanks… damn shame there haven’t been real benefits from this if true… fundamental immune system research alone could potentially help so many… cheers and syntropy bless
EBOscientistAan hour ago
The purpose of the research is very oriented on certain aspect and structures. Many shortcuts are taken and many assumptions are made
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Couple of thoughts, would their blood being high in copper concentration act as an antibacterial of sorts and justify not having an immune system as their blood is an immune system.
Could it also be that their food that they consume, assuming its liquid, is blood? High in protein and copper? Would that explain all the animal mutilations where the blood is removed from the animals found?
EBOscientistAan hour ago
A blood with a high concentration of copper is for me a sign of toxicity if there is not a mechanism to counterbalance it. As for the blood, it would need to have a higher sugar concentration to be a good nutrient source
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Can they communicate through telepathy?
EBOscientistA26 points 2 hours ago
It's speculated that nodules in the central lobe of the brain could be used for this, but I don't see how it could be possible.
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[–]TravelerAireth 11 points 2 hours ago
I have several questions.
Why did you only look at the genome and proteome? Why was the transcriptome not considered?
What transfer RNA genes did you identify?
Could TPRs be a unique transposable element? Were there other identifiable transposons?
Do they have a microbiome? I am so fascinated by the immature digestive system and curious if they would compensate with a more exotic microbiome.
Is your company hiring? I study transfer RNA and it’s modifications. There is a large piece of the puzzle missing here and it likely has to do with the epitranscriptome.
Thank you :)
EBOscientistA37 minutes ago
1: Research is directed towards a specific goal. There are structures of interest in the brain and their proteome is very important. The next logical step will be the study of protein interactions. The transcriptome is difficult to elucidate after death due to the action of RNase.
2: None that I'm aware
3: They are not transposons, they are rather addresses to indicate the position of a gene. They probably also act as a cleavage site for some kind of endonuclease mega-complex.
4: They should have one, they have a rudimentary immune system and wear biofilm as clothing. I assume that they must be exposed to microorganisms in the mouth, nostril and ear. No importance is given to the study of the microbiology of these creatures.
5: Probably because there is a relatively high turnover and it's a dead end job.
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[–]Citizen_of_Danksburg 35 points 2 hours ago
Was any work done to study their Metabolome? I work as a statistician in metabolomics. We specifically use the chemo-centric approach to metabolomics. We’ve done some wacky studies so I’d be curious if we ever processed any samples that were EBO in origin. We frequently do work with the DoD and DARPA.
For those saying it’s a LARP, I disagree. This was too technical to be a LARP. This checks out with some other information we suspect to be true regarding the greys and possibly cow mutilations. Bovine serum is a very valuable resource and is being studied/used to try and create meat in a lab (in-vivo research).
OP, thank you for posting. Fantastic post. Shared it with a ton of people.
Last question: did they have a tongue? Your post seems to indicate they don’t due to the way they digest their food and communicate but I just thought I’d ask in case. The lack of teeth, small lips, lack of vocal cords, and their minimal digestive system seems to suggest these entities do not posses a tongue.
EBOscientistA18 points 2 hours ago
Keep in mind that the proteome knowledge is far from being comparable to what is known for humans. The main research priority was to identify the proteome of nodules in the central lobe of the brain. If there is any research on the metabolome, it will undoubtedly be in these structures as a priority. They have no tongue.
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I havent read everything in detail but can you expend on the document on their religion?
EBOscientistA9 points 3 hours ago
If you can see my edit, I responded there
EBOscientistA14 points 4 hours ago
Oh it works? Of course I can, give me a few minutes as this is a relatively abstract subject. Note that I don't believe this has any scientific merit.
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[–]DudeManThing1983 15 points 3 hours ago
Just finished. You mentioned you read about their culture and religion, can you tell us something about that?
EBOscientistA16 points 3 hours ago
If you can see my edit, I responded there about religion. Their culture is seemingly centered on the fulfillment of this religious motivation.
[–]WitchDoctor663 12 points 2 hours ago
David Grusch recently said the Vatican is fully aware of non-human intelligence. Do you believe humans have adopted this region in a way, placing importance on the soul as instructed by these aliens?
[–]cognitive-agent 8 points 2 hours ago
Why would the documents on their religion and culture be included in the archive room at your facility? It seems to be at odds with the idea of compartmentalization, unless that material was thought to be somehow very relevant to your work.
EBOscientistA7 points 2 hours ago
I'm not sure, to give some kind of insight maybe.
[–]SeginusGhostGalaxy an hour ago
Do you have any idea about how they received those bodies? Did you know if there were any live, or heard about live specimens being housed at other locations?
EBOscientistAan hour ago
They were probably discovered in a crash given the obvious trauma. It is implied that there are other carcasses than those I observed
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What I’ve found interesting is the tie between what you wrote and what Bob Berman and Robert Lanza talked about in their books regarding Biocentrism. It seems they’ve followed that same religious-scientific pathway, albeit with slight deviations. Thoughts?
EBOscientistA58 minutes ago
To be honest I don't believe what is said about their religion. It doesn't really make sense scientifically.
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Have you heard of genetic engineering involving people and EBO's? Aka Hybrid research.
EBOscientistA13 points 2 hours ago
EBOs are hybrids between two biospheres
[–]itsajokechillbill an hour ago
Why do you say only 2. Could it be more? This is amazing, thank you
EBOscientistA56 minutes ago
You are right, it may be more, but we don't have any evidences to go above two.
[–]Milwackytrue believer 6 points 2 hours ago
You mention having to read literature on their “culture.” Can you expand on that? What is their culture? Does it shed light on why they are here? Where they came from?
EBOscientistA12 points 2 hours ago
I reply to one comment with the same info. Anyway : Their culture is seemingly centered on the fulfillment of this religious motivation.
[–]biggy-cheese03 3 points 2 hours ago
Do they have names?
[–]ElectronicFootball42 2 hours ago
Were there any indicators, or contextual clues, within these materials that might have suggested how fresh/old that information was (at the time)?
Decades old vs. More recent, for example. While I'm curious if there's any specific dates mentioned, if they aren't available or permissible to share, the general timeframe is still something I'm curious about.
From non-UAP/NHI gov't experience, I understand documents of these types (compilations of data; briefing documents) often will cite a year or timeframe for a data point to provide context for the reader.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
Some document was clearly typewritten. The one dealing with religion is a good example. Those on the gross anatomy are also like this. I have no memory of dates unfortunately.
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Great write-up.
Any ideas on where they are from?
EBOscientistA34 minutes ago
No idea. Probably from a distance that allows panspermia over a geological era.
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[–]Milwackytrue believer an hour ago
I was going to ask the same. And to piggyback on this, OP what was your reaction to finding out we’re not alone in the universe in such a stark manner? Was this shocking to you in any way?
Any indication on how this all started? What role our government is playing in it? What the ultimate objective is?
EBOscientistA30 minutes ago
The ultimate goal is to be able to understand the purpose of nodules in the central lobe of the brain. This is apparently essential to the use their technologies. The program is probably an offshoot of an ongoing program that studies engineering.
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This was fascinating. Although I am not a scientist, and the information was largely above my head, I enjoyed reading it. Thank you for sharing this here.
EBOscientistA16 points 3 hours ago
IS there anything I can explain in layman's terms
[–]DrinkatMoes an hour ago
If the blood is copper based why is it brown and not a blue or green color? I'm assuming this, based on our red blood being iron based.
My brother asked and I said I have no idea but I can ask.
This is incredible thank you!
EBOscientistA35 minutes ago
It's brown because if you mix red (red blood cell) , yellow (plasma) and green (copper oxyde) you get brown.
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[–]Smooth_Imagination 4 points 2 hours ago
It is very interesting to read. I have been writing about what we might expect alien biology to be like, using as a guide reports.
I did conclude that they excrete protein waste through their skin to account for the smell, had under-developed stomachs, had unidirectional airflow like birds and potentially separate trachea and esophagus all the way through.
You mention that the specimen has has no vocal cords, do they communicate via sound from a specialised organ, and where would it be?
In terms of genetic similarity. This doesn't surprise me. The DNA on this planet has been pretty uniform in basic structure and yet protobiogenic processes continue and across the vast chemical environment of the Earth and over several billion years, nothing else has developed that is 'better'. So it must be one of the best possible arrangements that chemical processes and proto-metabolisms would favour being discovered by evolution. And so I have to conclude its very likely to be a common form of life and intrinsic to the phenomena of life.
I recall the crop circle with the descriptin of aliens having tripple stranded DNA - is there any organelle or report of an EBE having this arrangement?
On the digestive system, obviously this is a major source of weight and volume in the human body, and largely necessary only to cope with a large variety of foods. Their arrangement is anticipated by myself and more optimal for space travel but efficiency in general as well.
I recall one report from somewhere, possibly an abductee, that they grew their food in bioreactors and it was some sort of special growth culture (bacteria?) that contained all the nutrients they needed in a very digestible form.
With the film covering them, the obvious benefit to me is that of avoiding microbial contamination and infection.
EBOscientistAan hour ago
Vocal chords: This detail is in the section on the respiratory system. Vocalization is produced by vibration of the wall membrane at the junction between the two air sacs.
I specified that the two biospheres have a common origin, probably panspermia.
Three strands of DNA are just imagination. Imagine the steric hindrance of such a structure.
The digestive system is undoubtedly designed in this way to limit autonomy.
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[–]Toy_Soulja 6 points 2 hours ago
Did you pick up info as to who is creating the grays? And or what their purpose is? Also others have mentioned the info about their culture and religion, I'd be interested in that as well. If you and this information are real thank you for taking the risk to share! If your a lying piece of shit, fuck you! Lol
EBOscientistA53 minutes ago
All I know is that they must have been created here. There is speculation that these creatures can be controlled remotely like drones. Maybe they are avatars like in the movie of the same name.
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[–]AnswerNeither 3 points 3 hours ago
interesting.
Can you discern anything about their longevity from what you saw?
length of telomeres?
what does their ribosome look like?
what kind of athletic ability would they be capable of?
most importantly- were they easy to cut or pierce? what about the suit?
EBOscientistA12 points 2 hours ago
My comment on longevity is extrapolation only, I should have clarified. There is no telomere because their chromosomes are circular like a plasmid. The ribosome look like a regular ribosome, at least functionnaly. It's not the focus of research to do crystalography (fortunately). Their muscles are mostly type 1 fibers, so they're physically very weak.
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[–]huzzah-1 8 points 3 hours ago
I have no idea if this is real or fake.
EBOscientistA31 points 3 hours ago
You shouldn't blindly believe me, and I don't expect you to. It's the sensible thing to do in this situation. After all, I'm only offering a tall tale and anonymity. The fact that you are present on this forum, which deals with alien life, tells me that you are questioning the very nature of reality. I only hope that the information I offer can give a new perspective and new ideas.
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[–]Jadinkalage_Morgoon 2 points 2 hours ago
Very very interesting. I would love to see you now speak In lament terms to the questions asked.
EBOscientistA2 points 2 hours ago
Please ask question, I will do my best
[–]glasses_the_loc an hour ago
Is the cell cycle the same? Do the chromosomes replicate bidirectionally like in bacteria?
EBOscientistA28 minutes ago
I answer a similar question: Cell division is done by mitosis, but a somewhat strange version that has undefined protein actor given the circularity of the chromosomes. My knowledge is limited to beautiful images of confocal microscopy
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[–]Serpico2 3 points 3 hours ago
This is probably an inventive creative writing exercise. If actually true, there’s no use asking OP for details, they’ve made it quite clear that don’t want the life intrusions/(threats?) of being a whistleblower.
Cool read either way.
EBOscientistA11 points 2 hours ago
I give details on everything I know except about myself.
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[–]cognitive-agent 1 point 3 hours ago
It is therefore speculated that the food consumed is a sort of broth rich in sugar and protein, which probably also has a high copper content.
Are you saying what I think you're saying?
[–]ElectronicFootball42 7 points 3 hours ago
What do you think they're saying?
[–]desexmachina 6 points 2 hours ago
Boba drinks, they're sustained by nothing but Boba tea drinks
[–]True-Bullfrog-6587 5 points 2 hours ago
It implies that they may drink something like blood.
EBOscientistA9 points 2 hours ago
I don't think there are enough sugars in human blood to satisfy their nutritional needs, except perhaps for diabetics.
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EBOscientistA19 points 3 hours ago
The proper authorities are the ones who created the program.
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[–]TKUNK99 -1 points 2 hours ago
Please clarify, opposable thumb on the medial side?
EBOscientistA10 points 2 hours ago
Medial is a term that refers to the location of a structure in relation to the middle of the body. Thumbs are on the same side of the hands as us.
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[–]Cosmicfart180 3 points 4 hours ago
Is it in USARAMID?
[–]Cosmicfart180 3 points 4 hours ago
USAMIRID i mean
EBOscientistA 9 points 3 hours ago
Battelle National Biodefense Institute
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EBOscientistA15 minutes ago
I have received some very strange and somewhat disconcerting private messages. Please treat this text as what it is, just words on a screen and don't do anything you will regret. I will leave for the evening although it is still early. I specify that the passage on religion is third hand information and should not be your new gospel. I will probably have time to answer more questions later.